Talk:Wikimedia Enterprise

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Business development plan?

We are way past the dates in the table, but no business development plan has presented for community review yet and no update on the delay has been given. Is this project on hold? ♥Ainali ^talk_{contributions} 22:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ainali: Hey, less on hold and more that our timetable has massively slid. Partly due to the project readjusting a little in scope and also partly due to the capacity. We are doing another round of a focus groups and we are planning on publishing a position essay in January. I'll update the timeline with the new expected dates. Seddon (talk) 22:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

LLC details?

Could we get some details on the Wikimedia, LLC, please? Relevant documents, details of how it's going to function? Is it currently doing anything, does it have any employees, or is it basically a placeholder at this point? Also, this isn't stated specifically anywhere, but I assume the primary reason for the LLC's existence is because of tax reasons/nonprofit restrictions? If so, could this be stated specifically somewhere? --Yair rand (talk) 20:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear Yair rand, I apologise for not replying to this message sooner - I took over as the 'community liaison' for this project at about the same time as you posted this message and obviously the notification of it slipped between a gap in the watchlisting of the page. Nonetheless, as you can see, today we have just published extensive new documentation that we've been working on. Yes, your assumption is correct. The specific section of the new FAQ documentation that is most applicable to your question is here.

The Foundation established a single-member limited liability company, with the Foundation as the sole member. Single-member LLCs are invisible under US tax law (you'll often see the phrase "pass through"), which means the creation of this LLC will have no tax implications for the Foundation. The LLC's activities will be reported as part of the Foundation's annual tax filings, as opposed to in a separate filing, and the Foundation will pay taxes on any taxable income earned by the LLC. However, a single-member LLC is not invisible under US corporate law. The LLC helps to insulate the Foundation from any liability associated with the LLC's activities.

Also: the LLC is a legal entity but "it" does not have employees of its own - Everyone working on the Okapi project (now formally called 'Wikimedia Enterprise') is a WMF employee. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 15:52, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, that's very interesting. The legal and financial structure is still not very clear to me, see Talk:Wikimedia Foundation Audit Committee/2020-07-20 for what I feel is a reasonable request. (I didn't check yet all the new pages.) Nemo 18:08, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

We intend to publish the LLC's operating agreement, and the cost-sharing agreement between the LLC and the Foundation. We're working a third internal agreement to clarify inter-entity licensing; once it's executed, we will publish all three. --TSebro (WMF) (talk) 18:27, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm looking forward to it. Nemo 06:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you that's also very interesting to me. As I read the essay, one of the key reason is "avoid subsidizing big corp with (WMF) donor money", but if the employees are all WMF, how is that goal achieved? 2600:1700:5B70:117F:5DFD:C0:81FE:32A 00:11, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not a lawyer and not an accountant BUT my understanding is that this will be governed by the cost-sharing agreement Tony mentions above. The simplest explanation is probably along the lines that the WMF will be able to recoup costs such as these ensuring the donor isn't left out of pocket. Seddon (WMF) (talk) 00:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Can you please explain why the Wikimedia LLC is registered in Wilmington in the State of Delaware and not in San Francisco in the State of California. As far as I know the taxes in Delaware are low and so I think it is an important thing to clarify. I think that this company is registered in Delaware and that the address is Orange House is not good for the reputation of the Wikimedia Foundation. The companys address CORPORATION TRUST CENTER 1209 ORANGE ST is used by a lot of companys. I think Wikimedia LLC shouldnt have its seat at such an address. In German companys who have a seat at such a building like Orange House are called Briefkastenfirmen and the most people dont like such companys. Please think about another seat for that company. From my point of view it is important that at the seat of company it must be possible to meet a staff member. --Hogü-456 (talk) 19:33, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hogü-456: Thanks for your question. I can't speak to corporate structures in Germany, but establishing legal entities in Delaware is fairly common in the United States, because the body of corporate law in Delaware is well-developed and easily understood. Using the LLC to operate Wikimedia Enterprise will help insulate the Foundation from exposure, and the clarity of Delaware corporate law furthers that objective. And, for what it's worth, I'm not aware of any analogous stigma in the United States associated with Delaware corporations.

Also: there is no requirement under US law, nor any cultural expectation, for a single member LLC's office to be co-located where an employee of the single member is based.--TSebro (WMF) (talk) 00:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't question the legal decision here, i.e. that it's a pragmatic choice to establish the LLC in Delaware and there are legit reasons for it. However, I find it hard to believe that there is no stigma about Delaware corporations in USA, especially after the Panama Papers: there are many initiatives about the issue and even a Meryl Streep movie on the topic (granted, not the most successful) where the protagonist basically blames Delaware corporate laws for the death of her husband. (I don't endorse this movie, if nothing else because you'll probably need to accept DRM to watch it legally, but a relevant snippet is around minute 76 if you want to check the tone.) Nemo 06:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

For-profit or Non-profit?

Hi, just out of curiosity, is Wikimedia Enterprise LLC a for-profit or a non-profit? If it's for-profit, who are the stakeholders and who get to collect the profit? If it's a separate non-profit, will they be subjected to public disclosure compliance requirement like 501(c)3 or other similar types? Thank you! 2600:1700:5B70:117F:5DFD:C0:81FE:32A 00:13, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

The limited liability company (LLC) is a standard approach when a non-profit organization operates a for-profit activity, and will help us both manage risk and promote transparency. It is a single-member limited liability company, with the Wikimedia Foundation as the sole member. Single-member LLCs are invisible under US tax law (you'll often see the phrase "pass through"), which means the creation of this LLC will have no tax implications for the Wikimedia Foundation. That said, the Foundation is still required under US law to publicly disclose the LLC’s revenues and expenses in the Wikimedia Foundation's annual tax filings (view the audited financial reports here) as opposed to in a separate filing, and the Foundation will pay taxes on any taxable income earned by the LLC. However, a single-member LLC is not invisible under US corporate law. The LLC helps to insulate the Foundation from any liability associated with the LLC's activities. The LLC operates under the auspices of the Wikimedia Foundation, its staff are Wikimedia Foundation staff, and is ultimately subject to the governance of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. The LLC's legal registration can be found at the State of Delaware, Division of Corporations, Entity name: Wikimedia, LLC, File number: 7828447. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 00:28, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Does this mean that any compensation of the LLC officers, however called, is also mandated to be in the WMF's form 990? Nemo 06:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

FYI, I have seen this question and have asked WMF Legal to investigate this specific issue (due to timezones it might be a while before there is a reply. This is just to notify that the question is acknowledged and I will remove this notice when a proper reply is published. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

On the large reusers

The page mentions "a few massive companies use our projects' data", "businesses that reuse our content, typically at a large scale", "Reduce the need for high-intensity site-scraping". Sort of a curiosity, but just yesterday some FTC documents revealed that a decade ago one of them «offered remedies [...] for instance a pledge to stop scraping content from rival websites». A few initiatives we've seen around Wikimedia data might have been very different, if that had come to pass. And this has nothing to do with copyright or commercial relationships. Nemo 06:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I think it is safe to say that "big tech" has no specific ideological or emotional attachment to the long-term success of Wikimedia projects, and past-attempts to replace us (e.g. Knol) show this. That is one of the reasons why this 'enterprise' service is being built. Instead of simply trying to appeal to moral arguments that it is "good" and "right" for these organisations to donate to WMF to invest in the free-knowledge that sustains their business-model... this project is attempting to build a product that the want to buy - that in no way restricts the existing options. It is a far more sustainable revenue model, and relationship model, for us if these organisations are able to "speak their language" to us - the language of commercial contracts. The fact that we have never been willing or able in the past to offer them an SLA - a contractual guarantee that the data they build their products upon (and the way that many of Wikimedia's readers interact with us) will be stable - means they have never been able to rely (in the business sense) on our existence. With a legal relationship in place, we will be in a much more strong position, a more sustainable position, to talk about things like correct and consistent attribution. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 12:26, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Naming and communication

Before going into the details of the discussion, I want to thank you everyone involved for this greatly improved effort at communicating and discussing the initiative properly. I understand that the WMF board will review the projects for the future based on this initial pilot, and I think that in order to make this activity permanent we'll need to see a much broader consensus to support it, as opposed to the widespread confusion (at best) that we had so far.

The new name is an improvement over the old one, because it's informative and doesn't in itself imply anything negative about the main APIs and various avenues of access. It's also a term that companies are more likely to search for.

However, there are risks in using such a recognised terminology: most other sellers use it to mean that there are two grades of services, one which is actually good and restricted, and another one which is unreliable but gratis (freemium model) or even libre (open-core model). We don't want any of that, so we need extreme message discipline. The current messaging already contains what I consider to be some mistakes, I'll point out two.

• "Commercial reusers of Wikimedia": bad terms, the Wikimedia mission doesn't care about "commercial". We're perfectly fine with people selling Kiwix flash drives without our involvement and brands (if only!). The term also invites wrong questions such as "why don't you use a NC license then". All the sentences where "commercial" was used seem to actually care about "for-profit" reuse, which is a different problem.
• "Enterprise-grade Wikimedia APIs, service, and support" (on https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/ ): this suggests that the main APIs are not "enterprise-grade". While that might be technically true depending in the definition (especially one based on SLAs), what people are likely to hear is that the public APIs are "less good". This is not the message we need.

More generally, it seems to me that this project is now going in the direction of a very typical selling free software business model, namely support services, and should continue in that spirit. "Enterprise-grade support [for the usage of Wikimedia data]", I'm perfectly fine with that. All the use cases mentioned in the essay are things that any third party could do if they tried hard enough, but may not want to do in-house for a variety of reasons. Placing this initiative squarely in the field of support will also help recognise that there are other actors in this field, whose offering needs to be considered if we want to ensure a thriving ecosystem. For instance, some of the use cases mentioned could be served perfectly fine by a stepped-up Kiwix offering, with some help on how to consume the HTML inside ZIM files; and I'm sure there are other MediaWiki consultants who currently provide support on how to build services which consume Wikimedia APIs.

If I understood the strategy correctly, and if that can be expressed a bit more clearly in the core documents describing this initiative, I think it will be much easier and less painful to make it a success for the broader Wikimedia movement. Nemo 06:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Your first sentence here is extremely gratifying to read. You and I have been here long enough to see project-announcements/community-conversations that are less than ideal, so I am pleased to read your assessment that this communication effort is being done properly.

As for the name - and the communication of the name - yeah... Naming things, especially things that have to be understood by multiple different kinds of audiences (Wikimedia volunteers, big tech companies, tax-regulation offices), is hard! Also, describing it in a way that is legally accurate, but also brief and not-boring, is difficult. As you know, in the wikiverse, we also have this difficulty of describing to the world how WMF/affiliates are charity/non-profit organisations and the website is non-commercial, but that we do non accept non-commercially licensed content, in order to be compliant with the definition of free. Easily confusing to a journalist, a politician, or the general public!

A lot of the names and ways of describing what is now the "Wikimedia Enterprise" (formerly Okapi) project that were discussed had at least one of the problems: a) it looked like it was an 'officially sanctioned paid editing' service, and/or b) it was confusingly similar to something already available in the movement and free (especially anything to do with 'data'), and/or c) sounded like it was a 'fake' Wikipedia and/or d) undermined the legal and cultural importance of the word Foundation.

It is also important to me (and the team) that it is not a name that sounds... fun. It should be prosaic and only interesting to the specific kinds of people who might want to be customers: big businesses. It would be unfortunate if the community felt, because of a name, that they were "missing out" on a new, cool, exciting thing.

With regards to your points:

1. yes, I will go back and look for where I've used "commercial" in the documentation and replace it with "for-profit" when it is grammatically appropriate. This might require different kinds of changes in the different translated versions depending on how languages separate these concepts in their vocabulary.

Edit: done. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 13:22, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

1. we have tried to ensure that the description of the 'new' thing doesn't simultaneously disparage the value of the 'existing' thing. The meaning of 'enterprise grade' is a term-of-art in the sense, as you note, that it comes with the SLA. While I acknowledge the semantic risk of unintentionally insulting the existing APIs, I feel that anyone who is actually reading documentation about APIs is already technically competent enough to know what 'enterprise grade' in this context implies.

On the topic of support services - doing some kind of paid consulting with potential/new customers of the API about how they could best integrate the service into their architecture is something that is, potentially, viable in the future. On the other hand and want to make it clear that "Wikimedia Enterprise" is not interested in getting into the area of paid mediawiki hosting, and certainly not anything that could even be remotely perceived as a paid-editing service! We have talked with the MediaWikiStakeholders group (formerly sometimes called the 'enterprise mediawiki' group) too.

-- LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 13:13, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Edit API?

Will this Enterprise API also provide an edit API so that those big enterprise customers can also contribute data/edits back to Wikipedia projects in bulk? And not necessary new data, but also corrections/improvements to existing data? Data quality in general? I assume that many of interested Enterprise API users check data they get from Wikipedia and have some information about their quality. It would be great if they could have a way to contribute that back. Mitar (talk) 09:22, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Dear Mitar, the project is a "read" API. Nonetheless, as it states in the FAQ under the question "Will it directly affect Wikimedia content?:

Longer-term, the Wikimedia Enterprise team also hopes to explore methods by which new information (e.g. "microcontributions") can be fed back to Wikimedia projects from the general public who are using products made by the Wikimedia Enterprise customers. This is in accordance with the movement strategy recommendation Improve User Experience which speaks of using APIs for the “...the potential for data returns”. At that time, appropriate community consultation will be made to ensure that such contributions could be sought in response to actual community needs, and in a manner that is compliant with Wikimedia editorial culture, privacy policy, terms of use, etc. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 12:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer. Mitar (talk) 05:40, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Unrelated Business Income Tax and non-profit status

This income (proxied through LLC) will probably be unrelated business income from the perspective of IRS because it is not related to the mission of the non-profit? Or is the intend to show it as related? Is there a danger that this income puts non-profit status of the Wikimedia foundation itself into jeopardy? What happens if it becomes a substantial revenue source? Mitar (talk) 09:26, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Dear Mitar, for the first half of your question I have asked someone from WMF Legal to look at this question specifically, so I can be sure to give as precise as possible an answer.

Edit: @Mitar:, here is the answer! provided by User:Tle (WMF) - the Financial Controller of the WMF. I hope this answers your question:

Wikimedia Enterprise is a novel product offering for the foundation with its own taxability and accounting considerations. As a tax exempt organization, the Wikimedia Foundation is evaluating whether Wikimedia Enterprise is a related or unrelated business activity. The IRS has set forth the following criteria to determine whether an activity is related or unrelated: Business activity that generates revenue for the purpose of making an income; Business activity that is regularly carried out (frequency and continuity); and Substantially/Not substantially related to the tax exempt purpose, even if the income is spent on mission activities. Accordingly, if the activity is deemed unrelated and the unrelated business taxable income is required to be filed on Form 990-T - Exempt Organization Business Income Tax Return. The Wikimedia Foundation may be able to exclude some of the income that it earns from the Enterprise API platform from unrelated business taxable income.

Yes, it looks like the only criteria which is under the question (others pass) is if this is income is substantially related to the tax exempt purpose. Givens foundation's mission ("The Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. is dedicated to encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free, multilingual content, and to providing the full content of these wiki-based projects to the public free of charge. The Foundation operates some of the largest collaboratively edited reference projects in the world, including Wikipedia, the fourth most visited website in the world. In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Foundation provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission.") I am unclear how to answer that. I am glad to read that User:Tle (WMF) believes this might at least partially not count towards unrelated business income. Mitar (talk) 06:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

For the second half of the question: No. As you can imagine, ensuring the charity-status of the WMF is not threatened is something that has been very carefully considered! There are some relevant pieces of information to that question in the FAQ under Wikimedia_Enterprise/FAQ#Legal. As for the issue of "what happens" if it becomes a substantial revenue source - there are specific checks and transparency rules we've described in the FAQ in the "financial" section, in particular here. It will not be allowed to supercede or replace the donations model of fundraising, as described here. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 12:14, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@LWyatt (WMF): does that means it was be capped (in the sense of lowering prices) were it ever to approach 49% of total revenue? As a more relevant concern, have any thoughts been put into the potential (scale of) impact on donations - people thinking "ah good, Big Tech paying for using it, that sounds like a good fiscal solution, now I don't need to debate to secure Wikimedia's running" Nosebagbear (talk) 16:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your question. I share your desire for keeping small reader donations the primary way that the Wikimedia Foundation is funded. We are in constant communication with our donors and have discussed this with many of them (both donors who give through the annual appeals and major donors). The response has been overwhelmingly positive. Our donors want us to serve more people in more parts of the world and understand that that requires revenue growth. We have a small team, Donor Relations, that answers hundreds of thousands of donor questions\inquires\complaints a year. We have only received one donor complaint regarding Enterprise API. We typically get a lot more when there is news coverage of a stance the foundation is taking or something new we are doing. We are also always running campaigns and A|B testing messages, so if there was a significant negative reaction to this, we would see it relatively quickly. We care about how our donors will react to this, we are proactively talking to them, and we are carefully listening to their response. To the second part of your question, from all of the customer discovery conversations that we have had, we do not believe Wikimedia Enterprise will produce revenue on the same scale as our reader donations, which still continues to grow every year! However, if we are wrong on that, we are in control of how much we invest in growth of Enterprise API vs. growth of reader donations. There are lots of different course corrections we could make (if and when). We are excited to one day have Enterprise be a supplemental revenue stream for the movement’s growth, but we are committed to keeping the majority of financial support coming from reader donations. --Lgruwell-WMF (talk) 17:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Hm, FAQ touches other potential issues. Here I am really thinking only about Unrelated Business Income. There is no official limit, but a too high unrelated income can bring issues with IRS and potentially losing the status. This site mentions a rule of thumb of 20%. Mitar (talk) 06:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

"We are also always running campaigns and A|B testing messages, so if there was a significant negative reaction to this, we would see it relatively quickly": this is an extremely dangerous attitude to have, see w:en:McNamara fallacy. I urge you to abandon it at once, Lgruwell-WMF. I'm available to suggest more pointers on why, if you're interested, but I'll start by mentioning Hannah Arendt. :-) Nemo 06:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Non-general funding

I had originally considered this humourously, but on more consideration, I think that just adding it to general funding is not wise. I do appreciate that general funding was a logical opening choice for the team to propose.

Funding should go:

1. To it's operating, and future development - to whatever amount is suitable
2. Potentially to a LLC-specific reserve fund, not to rise higher than 6 months of operating costs.

   Of the remainder (net profit-reserve build)

3. 30% is to go to efforts to technological efforts: mobile editing, Core (long underfunded), and efforts to acquire new editors (Growth Team, IP, etc)
4. 40% is to go to general funding, as anticipated
5. 30% is to go to Community Tech, either funding a vastly larger tech team, or a spun-off second team allowing tasking to different uses (e.g. one for Wikipedia/Data/Commons, one for other projects etc)

The WMF would need to commit to maintaining their current levels (inc. inflation) of funding for those purposes that come from normal donations, to avoid fund being shifted to general funding by the back door.

Smart assistants and search engines resolve queries for people without taking them to articles. That causes two issues. The Enterprise project looks like a good resolution for the fact that most donors donate from visiting the actual site. HOWEVER. The other issue is that most new editors come from those who visit the actual site - we need to fix that problem to avoid long-term structural goals.

The Community is also nervous about what will feel like many as a step away from our inherent nature. It's not an unreasonable project by any means, but it does come across as...uncomfortable. Beyond that, the Community has also registered concerns about how the WMF uses funds in non-ideal fashions. I think a more targeted funding model would help alleviate concerns. It brings its own issues (not least, feeling somewhat like requesting a bribe as I write up the idea) but I think it moderates the biggest issues and gives a chance for a single project to combat two category 1 issues - those which could, in the long-run, risk the viability of the project (it needs editors and it needs money). That's a goal worth reaching for Nosebagbear (talk) 17:23, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Dear Nosebagbear - I appreciate the level of detail and thought that you've put into this reply and apologise in advance that, in an attempt to respond to you as soon as possible today I might not be as detailed in reply.

For the way that the revenue generated should be 'split' into different groups/proportions/priorities - there's two things we can state unequivocally: that the service will be self-funding, and that anything beyond that will be used for/by the movement. Options include all of the things you've mentioned and, importantly, the Endowment fund. Beyond that, however, I would not personally be willing or able to comment - because those are strategic decisions about movement funds and should take place at a "higher" level than within a specific project. By comparison/equivalent: The team that organises the fundraising via emails does not, and should not, get to decide how the money they raise is spent. That would be inappropriate. Equally, the team involved this project should not have any specific control over how the money is spent - it is movement funds and should be allocated according to movement priorities. [I was a member of the Resource Allocation working group (as a volunteer), so I care about that issue!]. Legally, where the revenue from this service is allocated is ultimately the responsibility of the board of trustees. More broadly, the whole movement strategy process (including concepts like the Global Council) will perhaps create new modes for deciding on these kinds of resource-allocation questions, but that is beyond the scope of this project and this talkpage.

With regards to your point about voice-assistants, the fact that a not-insignificant portion of Wikimedia's "readers" (listeners?) are not visiting the website to access the information is both good and bad - as you identified. It means we are getting the knowledge to where people need it, but also that fewer see the fundraising banners, and equally, that fewer are able to potentially contribute to the site. We propose a longer-term goal of finding ways to bring people "into" the community in some manner in this section of the FAQ. Diversifying the revenue to ensure sustainability in the face of the potential slow loss of "eyes" on the website is precisely what this project is directly intended to achieve (see "Why Charge?" in the essay).

As to the inherent feeling of 'discomfort' - I completely understand, which is partially why I and others in the team have spent so much time to craft, test, improve, craft, test, improve - all this documentation and the various promises and principles within it! -- LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 20:25, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@LWyatt (WMF): it's certainly beyond the remit of this team to decide the use of funding it generates. However, that is a question that is relevant to whether this project is viewed as a problematic but ultimately beneficial change, or a harbinger of a change in the WMF's focuses. So it's not just a case of "handle project, then handle funding in next funding review", as we can't step back should the latter come round with a non-desired outcome. It would, I assume, require even your project board (not that I'm sure of the WMF's current project management methodology/structure) bump it further up the chain.

With regard to the principles, is there a full list of considered occasions where "full honesty and transparency" would not be possible. I can think of a couple, but this is an instance where we don't need example cases, we need something closer to a list of likely exemptions before they come into being Nosebagbear (talk) 14:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Relation to IP masking

Hi, at the same time this is happening, another WMF team proposes to mask IPs: IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. As far as I understand it, regular users and readers will not be able to see it but some users with additional rights (functionaries like checkusers, stewards, etc.) might be able to see it. Is this covered by the principle No non-public personally identifiable data. The information provided through the Enterprise API service is the same which is available publicly on Wikimedia projects.? Will Enterprise give access only to masked IP addresses (if this will be enabled)? —DerHexer (Talk) 17:30, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I would imagine that as with API draw at the moment, all information is drawn as if an IP editor were looking at it Nosebagbear (talk) 17:35, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Dear DerHexer, The simplest answer is to reiterate the principle "No non-public personally identifiable data. The information provided through the Enterprise API service is the same which is available publicly on Wikimedia projects". But, to be explicit about the question of IP addresses: customers of the "Enterprise API" only get the same data that is otherwise publicly available. Enterprise API customers do not get additional, privileged, better, or in any way 'different' access to any kind of data (personal, or content etc) than is available to any normal user on the website (or user of the existing APIs). Rather, the product is built for higher speed and volume of content flow, and service-support for that.

Usernames and IP address can be considered personally-identifying information, yes, but Enterprise API customers get the same personal data as current users of any of the existing APIs would get. With the IP-Masking project specifically: However the existing APIs would change as a result of that project's results - the same would also occur with the Enterprise API. Perhaps that is too general/non-technical an answer for you? If you want more specific details of a specific technical aspect, please advise what in particular, and I can find the relevant expert to give a response here. LWyatt (WMF) (talk) 18:21, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Hey @DerHexer:. I'm the PM for the IP Masking project. I would agree with what LWyatt (WMF) said above. With IP Masking in place, IPs for unregistered editors would be considered personally identifiable information and would not be available for public eyes. They would be treated similarly to how we treat IPs for registered users - only accessible to a limited set of users. I hope that answers your question! -- NKohli (WMF) (talk) 12:27, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Business case examples of use

I just found out about this project after another user posted a question on the help desk about this Wired article [[1]]. It's paywalled but I'm interested in understanding what some real world examples of business use cases are. Perhaps a "Business cases" section could be added to the content page, with a mixture of real and hypothetical examples of how companies might use Wikipedia Enterprise services? Or maybe at least a few examples in the Wikimedia Enterprise/FAQ#Financial section? Cheers. Timtempleton (talk) 19:55, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@Timtempleton: I'll raise this with the team. We definitely have lots of thoughts on how and where we can be used, based on real world examples. In the case of a digital assistant or search functionality our content is integrated within a broader ontology linking multiple data sources, frequently referred to as a “knowledge graph”. The knowledge graph can then be leveraged to provide additional context from related topics or concepts by products. Queries from users are interpreted via natural language processing to identify a particular topic or subject matter. The ontology or knowledge graph is polled for information and the response is relayed back to the user. That applies in any search based product. Simpler integrations of Wikimedia content often involve context provided programmatically in map products, used to counter disinformation on social media and integrated with streaming platforms. Seddon (WMF) (talk) 23:17, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@Seddon (WMF): Interesting. I'm most familiar with the Google Knowledge Graph, particularly since we answer a lot of questions at the Help Desk and Teahouse from people upset that the graph is showing wrong info, such as the wrong person's photo (which is of course a Google issue, not Wikipedia). Did you see this [[2]]? The paper mentions Stanford's DeepDive project. [[3]]. The computer science is beyond my level of understanding, but I wonder if it might have applications for the Wikipedia Enterprise project? Timtempleton (talk) 23:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@Timtempleton: that one is new to me personally, but not sure about the team. The ontology and graph projects I'm most familiar with are yago, dbpedia and babelnet. Seddon (WMF) (talk) 04:16, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Firewalls and undue influence

Has any thought been given to some type of firewalls, such that those companies which are paying substantial sums for data access cannot exercise any undue influence (read: any influence) over Wikimedia project content by threatening to stop using the service? Is there a plan in place to ensure that if they try that, they really will be told "Well, that's your choice, and we'll be sorry to see you go", even if they're spending millions per year? Seraphimblade (talk) 22:57, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@Seraphimblade: Non-profits should in general do what they can to avoid the problem of a single dominating revenue stream. From a governance and fiscal perspective, the best way to counter to that is ensuring a diverse & sustainable resource base and a healthy reserve. Diversification is something that the Wikimedia Foundation has been working to improve over much of the last decade. We used to be reliant on banner fundraising on desktop. Over time we've grown mobile fundraising, established an email program, built a major gifts program, setup an endowment and recently started expanding our planned giving/bequests program. Wikimedia Enterprise is an additional feather in the movement’s cap in that regard. Having and maintaining that diversity in terms of funding offers us protections from the volatility of any given single revenue stream, which also includes Wikimedia Enterprise.

The endowment acts as one way to reduce long term volatility in funding, turning one time or large amounts into a long term sustainable source of funds and it would not surprise me if some component of the money from Wikimedia Enterprise goes towards the endowment. It will happen implicitly anyway as part of the foundation's annual budget even if an explicit component is not tied to Wikimedia Enterprise specifically. The second means of reducing any funding volatility is through having a healthy reserve. I know it's sometimes derided by the certain members of the community, but the Wikimedia Foundation having around 18 months of reserve is what I would consider to be best practice for a non-profit of our size. I would also expect to see our reserve keep pace with any changes in our budget. It should more than permit us to absorb any posturing by a commercial entity that might try to cancel a contract.

As we have noted, having this activity undertaken by a limited liability company means the Wikimedia Foundation is offered better protections from the various liabilities, business activities entail. So even if a company were to take aggressive business practices, this would firewall the Wikimedia Foundation. The endowment moving to its own 501(c)(3) similarly firewalls the movement's future survival and so there are multiple layers of risk mitigation in play covering both the short and long term for the movement.

Fundamentally though I consider the editorial processes on the Wikimedia projects and the independence of communities in that respect to be sacrosanct. Interference by the Wikimedia Foundation whilst really not feasible is also fundamentally undesirable. It would expose the Wikimedia Foundation to huge risk and undermine the section 230 protections. (which on a side note highlights the importance of section 230 to the communities independence and not simply the WMF as a host).

So when you combine diversity, sustainability, and stability in a fiscal policy like the WMF has, it acts to reduce risk across the board and applies to the revenue generated by Wikimedia Enterprise. That existing fiscal approach combined with the need for editorial independence, not just by the community but also the Wikimedia Foundation, means that our ability to say “sorry to see you go” isn’t just going to be a bluff. Hope this helps. Seddon (WMF) (talk) 04:04, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, it is good to know that it has been considered. Seraphimblade (talk) 06:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Please Stop

I am forced to testify that most Wikimedia contributors had known about the commercial side of this project only yesterday. Some from the press release, and some from the news at all. It means only one thing. We have completely disrupted communication between the communities and the Wikimedia Foundation.

Maybe that's why I heard a lot of harsh statements from community members about this project yesterday.

Therefore, I propose to explicitly and defiantly stop and hold a broad discussion with the project users. Here on the Meta on separate page.

With noticeable notification of the users of each project and with the opportunity to speak out in their language.

And completely stop the project if no consensus with the community is found.

And I suggest that we always do this. We need to have a preliminary discussion with the communities on every major decision.

At least so that the project users haven't known about it from newspapers. Ideally, we should reach a consensus with project contributors on each principle issue.

Because the Wikimedia Foundation and chapters are just parasites on Wikimedia projects and without those who create wikiprojects, it means nothing. --sasha (krassotkin) 07:36, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

• Please see also comments to the news about Wikimedia Enterprise at the bottom of the page: n:ru:Википедия станет платной для пользователей нового API. --sasha (krassotkin) 08:58, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

@Krassotkin: I disagree with your assertion that this is a surprise that has come out of nowhere. To quote User:Guillaume (WMF) from the wikimedia-l mailing list, who put it much better than I could:

From the Strategic Direction in 2017 ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017 ), to the WMF revenue strategy in 2018 ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2018_Revenue_strategy/Summary ), to the working group on Revenue Streams in 2019 ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1 ), to the final recommendations in 2020 ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Increase_the_Sustainability_of_Our_Movement ), and now to this, it's certainly been a long journey, but it's great to see this coming to life. Taking this idea and shepherding it towards implementation while respecting the ethos of the movement is not an easy feat, and the team really seems to take this to heart, which is a good sign.

This project has been in progress for a few years, with multiple opportunities to comment along the way. In fact, you could talk with your community and add your comments, questions, and concerns now. The staff working on this seem highly responsive to feedback and questions. Given the previous and ongoing consultation here, asking them to stop the project does not make sense to me. --Deskana (talk) 13:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

• Most community members are not active on meta, and to be honest I don't remember any notification in previous years on my home wiki about this project at all. I also heard of this from the news. and kinda taken aback, this sounds like WMF essentially sells the data volunteers worked on for free. Xia (talk) 14:56, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
• You know, a typical pattern for 99% of wiki contributors is writing and improving articles (uploading images and the like). The vast majority of Wikimedia users do not participate in discussions on the very small community that has developed around the Wikimedia Foundation and enjoying its benefits. Moreover most Wikimedia users don't speak English and cannot participate in these discussions at all. In fact there are essentially two disjoint Wikimedia movements. The first ones to create wiki projects and make money (through donations). And the second, who spend this money on some strange projects. That's why the communities don't know about Foundation's initiatives and reject them. We must put an end to this. Every Wikimedia project contributor must participate in decision making. Nothing should be accepted without prior and explicit approval from those who create the wikis. We have to start right now. --sasha (krassotkin) 15:03, 18 March 2021 (UTC)